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Non-Lethal combat?

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I've been wondering on why we have to kill the Wellies and Wastrels instead of just knocking them out or something?

 

Especially with the new line it really feels like the first player character would prefer to not kill a guy? I mean he doesn't exactly seem like the killer sort, so why does he instantly go for the fatal blow? It breaks the immersion for me (it reminds me of one of the recent Tomb Raiders where she cries over killing a deer, then kills a ton of guys without really caring; it really put me off of the whole thing). His story is actually one of the main reasons I'm so excited for the storyline (I have a love for his sort of character) and I might be wrong with how little's been released, but him not having an option to disable (not kill) an 'enemy' seems a little off to me, especially considering he seems to wander the morals and state of those on Joy, which surely means he'd consider how dubious it is that they apparently 'deserve' enough to die?

 

As someone who's on all-sorts of prescriptive medication to be able to live a somewhat 'happy' (whether false or not) life, having to kill these virtual folk who just want to be happy is relatively upsetting. What's the harm in wanting to be happy? It's just the lack of a choice that seems to be the problem. So why should I have to kill them instead of just disabling them for a little while?

 

But really though, I'm fine with sneaking around and stealing from cabinets, but being able to chloroform or knock someone unconscious would be super handy when in a pickle.

 

Just a personal thought.~

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I don't really mind the killing too much (Dead men tell no tales), but I see your point. Considering we already have the empty syringes It'd be cool if we could craft/cook some kind of tranquilizer to knock people out. Maybe I've been watching too much Dexter, but seems like an effective way to neutralize someone. Lol

 

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I really like the idea of non-lethal takedowns requiring either an item or special challenge of some sort. It makes killing the easier, less costly way of doing things, which gives the decision more weight. It may be difficult to implement in a way that makes it both costly/difficult and consistently achievable, but I think it's a discussion worth having.

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Hey!

 

Thanks for bringing this up, this is something we are currently discussing internally.

 

In my opinion, you are right that it is harsh for the main character to kill everybody easily (Ugh don't get me started on Tomb Raider, one of my favorite series but I have my share amount of beef with the reboot) and having a choice would make sense.

 

But, I also think that the main character knows how the Wellies operate and therefore knows that if he wants to escape, it's kill or be killed. Fundamentally they are not evil, they just want to be happy and forget the past, but they still psychotic which makes them murderers. That's just my opinion though and it doesn't necessarily reflects the opinion of the rest of the team.

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You're not alone in this -- for now, the takedown animation is rather ambiguous and leaves it up to your imagination whether you're killing them or or just knocking them out. We're definitely keeping in mind the idea of allowing a "pacifist" playthrough, but officially supporting it (i.e.: with an achievement or the like) means we have to make sure every gameplay situation has a non-lethal alternative. While we're making sure not to have our gameplay seem over the top lethal (think of Bioshock Infinite's brutal sky-hook attacks), we're not committing to it until we have an entire playthrough fleshed out.

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I guess this is somewhat along the same lines; I crafted a psychotropic syringe and injected a Wellie, and they just instantly turned on me. Is this the intended reaction, or are there plans in the future for a more tranquilizing effect? If that's the intent, I guess the purpose this serves is lost on me. It was a one-on-one situation, would there be a different reaction if it was among a crowd? Would they recognize us both as Downers and attack us both?

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I mainly brought up chloroform because I'm not sure how easy it was to craft tranqs in the 60s. ;D Then again it is a futuristic setting...

 

@Naila

Of course you guys know more about the story to make better judgement, but at the moment it feels more like a load of people getting on with their life and some guy coming in and attacking them out of nowhere... Although I suppose that would also depend on what the player chooses to do. Either way both sides are being at least a little rude, haha.

 

@Camille

The takedown has never seemed that ambiguous to me for some reason, it almost looks like he's trying to break their necks- but of course that might just be me. Looking at it from a different view, I can see the ambiguity in it now.

 

It's really nice to know it's being considered though, since it just always seemed a bit disheartening. Having the option is always a nice bonus (even if it's small, thinking of Bioshock's 'save' or 'kill' with the Little Sisters).

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I guess this is somewhat along the same lines; I crafted a psychotropic syringe and injected a Wellie, and they just instantly turned on me. Is this the intended reaction, or are there plans in the future for a more tranquilizing effect? If that's the intent, I guess the purpose this serves is lost on me. It was a one-on-one situation, would there be a different reaction if it was among a crowd? Would they recognize us both as Downers and attack us both?

 

In theory, using a psychotropic on a Wellie has the same effect as on a player -- it yanks them off their Joy. The end result would be a panicked new Downer drawing the ire of his friends. It is actually possible to have this happen right now by kiting the hostile Wellie to someone else, but you have to do so without drawing suspicion yourself, which is really not practical.

 

We do have a plan to improve that functionality, but it's unfortunately not a priority for the Night update.

 

It's really nice to know it's being considered though, since it just always seemed a bit disheartening. Having the option is always a nice bonus (even if it's small, thinking of Bioshock's 'save' or 'kill' with the Little Sisters).

 

Oh, yeah, like Bioware morality: "Press X to help old woman across the road, Press Y to kick box of kittens". ;)

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