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Salios

Saving, Experimentation, and "Oh Crap, RELOAD."

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So I love this game, I really honestly do. Simple simulation games are my jam but anything that can combine the dystopian world-building I love in Bioshock and the crafting/survival of a Simulation has my ears perked. So beginning to play I was incredibly excited - but also worried.

I didn't really know what to do, obviously, which meant trial and error. I was painfully surprised to realise that even if I saved, it didn't really mean anything if I died. I like to explore things (places) and try out different combinations to see what works best with my play-style. So dying by rotten fruit and fungi was -not- the way I had thought I'd go.

I'm still procedurally slaughtering all the wastrels in my start area and stealing all their worldly possessions but it isn't entirely based on my hoarding-survival instinct. I'm afraid to make progress in the game and then suddenly keel over and have to start again.

I understand a lot of people like permadeath for the challenge of it, but I certainly don't. If a game has permadeath, I can almost promise with 100% certainty that I won't buy it. I've already technically bought this game by backing it, but I really hope that permadeath isn't a permanent fixture.

Maybe include it in a different difficulty setting? But please please please don't make it the framework for the entire game. It's like giving me a perfect cup of tea on a shit day only to dump no-calorie sweetner in instead of sugar.

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I admit I also have some issues with roguelikes, and don't particularly like permadeath myself, but WHF does have a small advantage when it comes to making you replay. Because the game is procedurally generated you won't always get/find certain scenarios or setpieces in one world. For example, there's still one I've never seen, but know exists because other people have posted on it. Knowing that dying creates a new world and gives access to more story took a lot of the sting out of it for me. In fact my impression is you HAVE to die multiple times if you want to see everything the game has to offer, and so there's a solid reason to experiment and take risks, and story rewards for those of us who aren't so great at the survival aspect and play for the world. The more you die, the more you see.

 

I believe it's confirmed there will be difficulty settings in the future, but for the time being I'd just embrace the death aspect. If you cringe at the thought of losing resources, just sprint into town without even looting the wastrels first. Survival resources are currently plentiful there, so all you need to do is get a feel for the place.

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I have to disagree. The game already has this concept and it's the reason why u should hide under beds, the reason why u have to collect items and survive in disguise etc. If they are gonna implement difficulty settings, permadeath maybe will be in every difficulty level

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I'd guess permadeath would be constant, but I know the roguelike Sunless Sea did eventually implement a "Mercy" mode that allowed the player to save and reload (though if I recall the game did mock you for it, and it rendered certain achievements unattainable). For my money, though, WHF has less reason to implement something like that -- it's about escape, not building up a crew/prestige/etc.

 

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I went a long time thinking similarly about roguelikes - I'm a Spade/Explorer at heart (though a terrible one), and the idea of permadeath always used to freak me out. What I eventually came to find was that a good roguelike makes the learning curve and features surrounding permadeath into its own little section of the game worth exploring and tinkering with.

 

A lot of this can be achieved through certain persistent and/or unlockable features that speed up the early game if used well. Like maybe (very small) storage containers throughout the world whose contents persist through death, or crafting recipe knowledge that remains unlocked once learned. That would take away some of the "Oh God, now I have to play through all the hours of basic gathering again" sting, while preserving death as something with consequences. A "hardcore" mode could then be added, which would remove all those goodies and be more of a "pure" roguelike.

 

There's another thread at http://compulsiongames.com/forum/discussion/642/difficulty-walk-in-the-park-or-daunting-survival that goes into greater detail about this subject (and has developer input, which is always valuable). Permadeath doesn't necessarily have to mean a total erasure of all your progress in the game, and many good roguelikes find clever ways to make repeated character death an actual strategic choice that can aid progression.

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Thanks for the comments guys :)

 

I'm still not a fan of permadeath, but like erikvonriese pointed out having some of your crafting/rare item progress saved would make this much more enjoyable to play. I'm not looking for easy, I'm just looking for something that doesn't mean insane amounts of grindy-gathering when I fuck up.

 

So far my sneaking skills need work. There're a few good reasons I play Titan and tank is most games...

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Hey @Salios,

 

I wasn't a fan either but that is because I never really played a Rogue like game before. Then I played a game called

and while I can't say it represents all rogue likes, it is a very enjoyable intro to the genre if you are new to it.

 

Our game is very different from it but it helps understand the high difficulty and the procedural generation

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