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Hi there, I'm quite enjoying this game (still haven't escaped!) but I think the map needs a little tweaking. First of all, it would be great to put a compass there and one on your HUD so you can use the map to navigate much easier. Second of all, the yellow and red exclamation marks aren't labelled and make it quite confusing to understand why they are there. Maybe an index? Or when you hover over them, it explains what it is? Also the map refreshes if you save the game, quit, and return later. That's the biggest issue to me considering how tough it is to learn the world generated for you. Oh and being able to label the map ourselves would be nice because then we can label looted areas and points of interest.

Sorry for all the feedback, but those are just a few thoughts that I thought may be interesting to add :) I would love to see them in the game or hear why it wouldn't work

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Totally agree! One thing I've been thinking a lot is that I'd love a minimap! I find myself looking at the map and thinking "OK I'll go over there" and then having to spam reopen and close the map to make sure I'm not going the wrong way. It could just be that I'm terrible, but I would love a minimap.

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Hi! thanks for the feedback,

 

We know about the bug on reloading the map and we will fix that as soon as possible, and we agree that there are upgrades to be done to the map in general, it's a first pass and not so much work has been put in it so it will be improved.

There is a compass by the way, you can activate it in the hud options, it's placeholder too, the art will be updated, but it does the job of showing where the north is.

 

As to the minimap I am personally not convinced as when it is present you tend to constantly look at it which is not so nice for the immersion. The team is split on the issue, but we think that exploration is part of the experience as the minimap may not help.

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@marc , What about a Minecraft-style map you can select from your inventory and hold as you walk? Like WHF, the Minecraft map is also only filled as you go, though the maps are limited to a certain chunk of area depending on how much you've crafted them. You're correct that an on-screen minimap tends to draw the eye, but when you're trying to get to a specific place toggling back and forth breaks the flow pretty hard. An optional "You can look at it if you need it" item might be a good compromise.

 

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Oh man, count me on Team Minimap. My IRL sense of direction is really good but my in game sense of direction is awful. I'd love a minimap just for orienting myself (I use the compass constantly and the map frequently as well, which I imagine must look odd to the citizens.) A minimap that filled in as one went (like the old Neverwinter Nights style) would be so helpful. Likewise tooltips on points of interest.

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May I say that while I see there is a need for better, seamless orientation in WHF, a "mini-map" maybe isn't the right way to go.

 

The way I see it, exploration and survival -in any virtual environment- is better experienced by your own awareness. As Marc said, looking at the mini-map to orient yourself breaks the immersion completely. When we say immersion, think about all the crap that's really going on in Wellington Wells, the things that went on for a long while and all the Joy that those people had to take. That feeling of always waking up in a new place, a city that you don't know anymore, cringed by paranoia. For me, the mini-map eliminates that. Don't you think that getting lost in a heart-beating chase is part of the fun? ;)

 

But it could also be a matter of taste, and I'm sure that not everyone shares my enthusiasm for minimalism. So we'll take your feedback really seriously, keep in mind though that the immersion is more than important in WHF.

 

Nonetheless, thanks for your help and ideas guys!

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@JDick

 

I think the major problem with orientation - at least for me - is that, at present, the surroundings (especially in the town) are somewhat limited. The only two instantly recognizable landmarks in the town are the playgrounds and the wall that surrounds the bunker, with an occasional event location like the Butcher Shop or the Pawn Shop. The area with the hatch has the roundabout, of course. While I think there's a great thematic and probably historical argument to be made for all the exteriors drawing from the same pool, if you aren't strong at "okay, turn left, then right, then left at this crossroads" type of navigation it is extremely difficult to simply walk. While this isn't as dire when you're near the outskirts because the sea and the bridges help define the town borders, the interior of the city can be deeply confusing. It's worth noting that I don't have anywhere near the same level of confusion in the Garden Districts since there's a lot of bare space and specific patches of foliage you can spot at a distance and use to orient yourself.

 

So, if no minimap is to be added I'd definitely suggest more textures or distinct landmarks to help. Hell, if there was a way to do it in a procedurally generated sense even street signs would be really appreciated, even if they're a little...haphazard, considering how the place was likely founded.

 

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I'd absolutely take more landmarks in lieu of a minimap. I understand the need for immersion but for me, immersion is more broken by needing to pull out the map every time I exit a house having committed serial murder. "Which way was the edge of the island again?"

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I'm on the side of no minimap, more landmarks. I think the compass is good enough for general navigation, and having a minimap would mean more time spent looking at that, and less time noticing little details in the world.

 

Also, I get that more variety in buildings and therefore more recognisable areas is a matter of time, so that will get better as the artists complete more assets.

 

I think a proper minigame would subtract from the experience though. My opinion.

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I feel like, as far as in-game navigation goes, the problem will largely resolve itself once more unique buildings are added to the game. More prominent buildings makes it a lot easier to get around, since you have easily recognizable structures to get your bearings with. It is good to hear that the map will be getting improvements, though.

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I think my biggest issue with the map as is, is the icons are quite large so it's not always clear exactly where they are meant to be on the map.

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@Jdick @marc

 

Your point of view makes a lot of sense to me. I'm still concerned with the whole immersion aspect being successful if one has to tab out to look at the map, ensure the compass matches up, and then continue playing every so often. Getting lost can be fun if you aren't taking the game seriously, but when you are and most of the world looks the same, it's nearly impossible to keep that immersion. Landmarks are a good idea but most likely a pain for you all and they don't serve a practical purpose.

I have two other ideas that could avoid mini-maps:

1) Create colored areas. This would mean changing building textures to say, blue in one spot, red in another, and so forth. To avoid all these goofy colors being everywhere, you could do it as a theme by recoloring roofs or doors for each section. This would allow people to get a sense of where they are very easily, even if there are only 3-4 sections. Say a bridge divides yellow and red, and another is in the middle of green. Now you don't need your minimap for the islands beside. For the wastrels, you can do bland colors such as brown, grey, black. This would keep the feeling but still allow orientation.

2) Create an obtainable map in game. This could be a crafted item or simply a retrieved on. Maybe you have to fill it in by holding the use button for 5 seconds, and everywhere you've been will be added. Maybe you have to sit while doing this, making the chairs more practical than just reading the news. Maybe you can even mark spots on the map freely as one would draw on a picture in paint.net. I'm not sure how this would work with programming, but it would definitely make immersion fantastic and help people avoid tabbing out by keeping this in a different bind, ready to read when needed.

 

Sorry if either of these aren't possibilities as I don't know much about programming, but those were a few thoughts.

 

P.S. Please tell me the Victorian island or whatever that island with the white buildings is, will have a purpose. Right now it's absolutely useless and it makes me kind of sad to walk through it as it's just a waste of land generation

 

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@YourFavoriteDwarf

 

P.S. Please tell me the Victorian island or whatever that island with the white buildings is, will have a purpose. Right now it's absolutely useless and it makes me kind of sad to walk through it as it's just a waste of land generation

 

This is still pre-alpha, nowhere near the finished game ;)

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@YourFavouriteDwarf Did you not read the intro textbox you get at ther start of every game? It says there's a maintenance hatch you need to find... ;)

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